suspectclass | XXBoys, Public Shaming and Accountability

XXBoys, Public Shaming and Accountability

I'm just reposting what I put up on Friendster. I am not going to get back into the discussion on everyone's favorite community right now, but in case you've been hearing about this, here are my thoughts.

So bulletins and posts and emails and blogs have been flying all over about this, and some of what's being said is really disturbing to me. Given the posts on friendster, and that I don't have a myspace account, I guess this seemed like the best way for me to throw in my two cents.

Now, as a disclaimer, I don't know any of the people involved. I don't know Kael, I haven't participated in the XXBoys project, I don't live in San Francisco. I do, however, have some experience with issues of sexual assault allegations in the queer community, and the question of how we handle such things is important. Both as individuals and as a group of people that like to at least occasionally claim some level of responsibility and accountability to one another.

I'm not sure that the choices some people have made to wage a boycott campaign over the internet are the ones I would have made, or would recommend another person or group make in the future. I also would recommend that Kael rethink the arguments he has made as to why he couldn't possibly have done it. The burden of proof should of course not be on
him, but the idea that somehow not being a man means that you cannot rape is ridiculous (his terms, not mine). The idea that queer people somehow do not hurt and abuse each other is ridiculous. The idea that survivors are never abusers or assailants is ridiculous. Certainly to be falsely accused and defamed would be a terrible
thing. But the fact that guys who have worked with him have been comfortable really doesn't mean anything when the people who are claiming he has behaved inappropriately, as far as I know, are all women. Think about this for a second. One of the
important things about male or masculine privilege is not to assume that everyone has it. This is basic. But assuming that because you, a butch or a man or an FTM, however you identify, are okay with being around someone, does not mean that they are
not capable of making other people uncofortable, behaving inappropriately with them, or abusing them. This is feminism and survivor ally 101.

We need to think about how we as a community can protect ourselves and each other. But I can say, for myself, that hearing people call out a woman for public disclosure of abuse or assault does nothing to make me feel safer. Disbelieving someone, or calling their claims less than valid because of the accused's "contribution" does more than frustrate and annoy me, it illustrates how unsafe those communities are for everyone. We don't feel safe using the societal institutions like the police, and we eat our own. How safe do you feel?

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You rock hard.

hey,
i also dont know any of the people involved in making the allegations of his innapropriate behaviour. however, i was a part of the photo project and felt that he was appropriate and very professional throughout. especially with specific consent for the shoot and the different kinds of photos.

while he was in philly he stayed at the house of one of the major members of each of the DV advocacy groups actually, and although that means nothing in reality, i doubt that anything happened in this city without it getting back to those people. of course, we are one of many cities hes been to.

yes, that counter arguement abt not being a man is busted. actually, i think thats one of the problems with maintaining a transgender identity as a person who has transitioned. little boys dont have responsibility like men do. they get to hang on mommy's appron and go into the mens room. take some damned responsibility for the space you occupy for gods sake. ok, mini rant over.

but really, i know nothing. and i am also frustrated with the way the so called radical community can take an allegation against somebody and run with it and completley shut that person, who probably needs help and or suport, out completely. its especially a bad solution if they are guilty as accused.

however, after the conversations i had with him abt his role in dynamic relationships (D/s) im not sure that these accusations of assault are really about assault, maybe just the product of poor negotiation after sex that was negotiated but turned out to be more than expected.... tricky tricky.

again, all speculation.

but im glad *somebody* has said something more than just repostinga bout this.

ooops! i meant go into the womens room, not mens room!

As I often say/scream, "Age appropriate masculinity!". I take this to mean that as someone who is 27, I should be (at a minimum) expected to display masculinity and responsiblity of someone who is developmentally my age, if not more. Part of this masculinity and this responsibility is to forthright with myself and others about what I may or may not have done. I purposefully choose to not weigh in on the issue of Kael and XXboys, mostly because I don't do drama. I do wish to continue putting out there the need for age appropriate masculinity, regardless of your sex ascribed at birth.

(p.s. I'm a transitioned FTM if that matters)

best expression ive heard so far.

i think im going to start using "age appropriate masculinity" in these sorts of conversations, if you dont mind me plagerizing, of course.

congrats on IML! we've probably run into each other at some point...

i'm travis http://20six.fr/xxboys/cat/201421/0
just in case curiousity is catching you... ha.

I see no problem with you using that term. I say "should be expected" as more of a personal goal I strive for, rather than a standard by which to subject other people. I would hope that people would do it anyway, but not everyone is there yet and being imperfect, sometimes I'm better about it than other times. But the point is that it's the goal...at least for me. How's that for a disclaimer? ;)

Thanks on the congrats. I had a hell of a time. I didn't win, but it was a great time. You look familiar. Probably from masscooper's friend's list or something.

hmm... im not sure maturity is an unreasonable request from adults trans or nontrans. ill accept that disclaimer though.

just getting to IML is an accomplishment!

he hasn't been shut out as far as i can tell, and i've heard a lot more statements of support for him from guys who attest that he didn't mistreat them than I have condemnation.

And yeah, D/s is tricky. but i think it'd be a disservice to kinksters everywhere (not just the woman in question) to write off her accusation because she was subbing.

AND I know people who themselves talk a big game about protecting survivors and about violence against women who themselves have raped people. Again, he may not be one of those people, but the fact that he hung out with a DV advocate doesn't mean he isn't.

I'm all for nuanced discussions of power and gender, but that's not what I've been seeing happening. And your point on non-adult identity is well taken. My roommate (below) and i have had many conversations about this (he really does shout that out on occasion). I don't think it's the only issue in accountability, but I do think it's important for us to think about. How can those of us who don't buy into the gender binary still be responsible adults when we have so few models for adults that make sense in our contexts?

im surprised to hear that so many poepple have popped up in his support. huh. it seemed like ive been seeing pages and pages of posts of that forwarded accusatory email on friendster and thats it...

the one thing i will say is that i do think that that format of spreading word that somebody is trouble does discredit the allegations a bit. perhaps because it seems too close to being just gossip mill.

its tough, because i *do* give credit to any person who says theyve been assaulted, but i also dont want to hop on board the "exhile keal " train. and ther is so little info out there.
also, i dont really want more info. i think this should be dealt with locally in sf before it is spread around.

i am the last person to say taht abuse isnt real in D/s, or that play cant turn into a violation of boundries. i spent a year of hell forcing leather groups of the city i was currently living in to deal with the fact that a prominant community member and board member who i had been in service to was physically and emotionally abusive and unsafe. i know how hard that can be.
but, i have also seen a lot of people turn around and make accusations about people after they had safe play because they were ashamed etc afterwards... thats all im getting at.

damn, sex is complicated isnt it?

It's definitely complicated. And the point about shame shouldn't be overlooked. But at the same time i think it's important to remember that the way a lot of people get their information on queer goings on (including xxboys) is through myspace and friendster. It's inherently flawed, and like i said, i don't know that this is how i'd do it, but recall that people forward this shit. It is not the person who was assaulted who is forwarding info without crediting it, it's everyone who passes it on. while this is not fun, it is exactly the kind of conversation people need to be having, and shaming the accuser (which i don't believe you're doing) or saying that a guy is fine with guys and thereby implying he can't be a rapist (which i think your comment played into) do little to help us, as a community, support survivors. Obviously we can't know what happened that day, but a pages long tirade about D/s and transphobia and how he's not a man and how he's been hurt doesn't do much to inspire my confidence in him. Maybe that was just a bad judgement call on his part, but it sounds far too familiar for me to be comfortable with it.

good point.

p.s. shaaaaame! ;)

It is not the person who was assaulted who is forwarding info without crediting it

Actually, it's unclear that the woman in question ever posted on her own behalf. Just for what it's worth.

I wish you'd seen some of the transient posts on CL, or could see what it looked like to some of us here, in San Francisco.

I wish i had, too. fwiw i was in northampton when that huge rape case was going on, and that (and my other experiences with some of the parties involved) is informing a lot of my opinions on this (i think it's only fair to admit). Also that most of what i've been seeing has been about guys (mostly) talking on ftm, which is different from a location-specific, mixed gender discussion/battle/whatever else.

How can those of us who don't buy into the gender binary still be responsible adults when we have so few models for adults that make sense in our contexts?

And as I think I've told you before, I'll say that this, almost as much as the body dysphoria, had a lot to do with my choice to start T. I didn't know how to be a masculine-gendered, age-appropriate adult when people constantly thought I was 12.

"age appropriate masculinity" is a fine phrase, particularly applied as a corrective to boy-gendered people who haven't yet gotten it that 17-year-old-male gender is a phase for a good reason. But I do worry about the implications behind it, given the pervasive gender-and-class-policing that's a part of becoming an adult man in US culture. There are a lot of nontrans guys who would argue that age-appropriate masculinity involves settling down with a wife and kids, and I'm soooo not on board with that.

Yeah. I like to call it "not being a dick." But I'm a lot less generous than some.

Also, trannyboys in packs have neither the stifling weight of years of teen-boy socialization, nor (often) a lot of positive exposure to feminist, non-misogynist, and otherwise polite adult guys. Which makes it worse.

I'm alternately pleased and frustrated that my family life keeps me grounded in adult female-identified-women's lives. Not that their lives are always pleasant or that I wouldn't be happy as a swinging gay bachelor, but I think that it'd be a lot easier to become a.... kind of adult male-gendered-person I don't want to be if they weren't around.

Yeah, I'm supremedly lucky to have had the adult butch and transmale influences that I did as a younger person, as well as gay men and straight men who were not traditionally macho (though they certainly have their gender foibles). I'll always be glad for my time in Northampton, that's for sure.

there was some excellent discussion about these very issues in my own journal, which you can find here (http://mr-heathen.livejournal.com/44385.html). i've added you to my friends list so that you can read it. there's some good thinking-out-loud there.

A meeting of minds. That post is like a compendium of good discussion.

Thanks for inviting me over. It's clear that there's a whole lot that those of us outside SF have missed seeing.

thanks for popping over and adding. i can take you off the friends list or leave you on, as you like.

I would actually really like to keep reading and to add you over here. i'm sorry I didn't reply earlier! I've been more scattered than usual the last week or two.

I, too, would recommend mr_heathen's post.

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XXBoys, Public Shaming and Accountability

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